The Thing We Need Most in This Moment | Spark Talks Week 3

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We've all been forced to pause, reset

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and reclaim our futures in light of the chaos of 2020.

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There's always darkness and adventure

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when you're not sure where you're going.

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Join us for Crossroads Weekend Spark Talks

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and hear from people who will challenge you

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with new ideas to ignite your life.

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- Bible fact for you.: The Bible wasn't written by one person,.

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It turns out to be a collection

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of hundreds of people's stories

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and interactions with God told over thousands of years.

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Why is that?

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Well, it's because of this:

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If you want to understand who God is,

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you have to get outside your own bubble

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and beyond your own perspective.

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That's the heart behind the series that we're in right now,

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one of the most popular of the year every year.

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It's called Spark Talks.

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Hey, my name is Kyle, one of the teaching pastors at Crossroads

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and I'm so excited for you to get to experience today.

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In our country we have a race problem.

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The problem being that I see the world

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from my point of view and you see it from yours,

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and this creates a distance between us.

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Today we're going to try to bridge some of that gap.

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We're going to hear from different people

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on their experience of race,

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starting with our senior pastor, Brian Tome.

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- Race.

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It's something we're sensitive about,

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it's something we're passionate about,

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it's something that many of us are tired talking about,

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maybe especially many white males are.

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But we're going to talk about it again today.

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Why are we going to talk about it again today?

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Because we're trying to spark your life.

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We're trying to get something going the other direction.

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We're trying to help us with the real things

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that are happening in our world.

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And whether we like it or not,

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the race discussion is continuing, it's ongoing.

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And whether you realize it or not, the race discussion

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is actually woven throughout the entire Bible.

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And so the more you understand the Bible,

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the more you understand how your life operates

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and the more you understand that God has

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a lot to say about race, no matter what our background is.

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For much of my life, I've stuck my head in the sand

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around race because everybody in my culture

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was like me, a monoculture.

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I grew up in an upper middle class white neighborhood.

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I went to an upper middle class white high school.

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I went to college

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and lived in a house with a bunch of white people.

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I went and started a church with a bunch of white people,

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one Asian, that was about it.

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And then over the years from 1996 on

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to where we are right now in 2020,

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Crossroads is grown in diversity,

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grown in different skin tones,

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grown with a myriad of different people who are coming.

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And it is amazing and it's beautiful

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and it's frustrating and it's difficult

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and it's important because it's in the Bible.

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What do you mean it's in the Bible?

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Well, let's give us some examples here.

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The first mention of race, I believe,

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that we see in the Bible, or the most significant

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is when Moses is leading the nation of Israel

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out of bondage to Egypt.

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It says the Book of Exodus that he brought a mixed multitude.

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It's a mixed multitude, different people,

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which would have likely meant and included

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different skin tones.

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Moses marries a Cushite, Zipporah the Cushite,

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The land of Cush is in Africa.

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It is universally understood

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that Moses marries a black woman.

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And I don't hear any scholars saying that Moses was black.

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Here we have it.

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And it's also, by the way, it's apparently not a big deal

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because for most of you, I just told you that

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and you never heard of that before.

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We also see as we come into the New Testament

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Philip goes and he runs to the Ethiopian eunuch

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and they have an interaction in the Book of Acts.

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People from different races who were talking

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and it's going okay and it's fine.

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In the Book of Revelation it says that

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at the final judgment we will all come before God,

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every tongue, every tribe, every nation.

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This means all different kind of skin tones,

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all different nationalities,

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all different sorts of dialects.

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In fact, in the Book of Acts, the first miracle

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that happens when the Holy Spirit comes upon people,

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when Jesus leaves the earth, the Holy Spirit

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comes upon people and the first crazy thing that happens

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is people start speaking tongues,

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a language they've never learned.

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That is so they can talk about who Jesus is

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to people who don't look like them

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and have a different nationality and have a different tongue.

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God gives the supernatural ability for languages

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so that we can communicate to different people.

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And this is where we are today.

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We have different cultures and different skin tones

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that have a hard time communicating to one another.

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Now there are some of us who have a pale skin tone

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and grew up in a predominantly African-American neighborhood

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and there's no cultural disconnect at all.

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You're white, but it's not hard speaking into that culture.

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Others of us have a darker skin tone and we maybe grew up

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in a stereotypical upper middle class neighborhood

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and there's no cultural disconnect.

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There's maybe a face or skin color that looks different,

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but there's no cultural disconnect here.

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The difficulty is whenever we talk race,

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talking it with people who have a different cultural context

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and us always judging one another

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or reading into what someone is really thinking

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when they say what they're saying

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or what someone's really thinking when they tell us.

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And this is our problem,

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we all think that we're experts on race,

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we all think that our views are informed, and we all think

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that we have the ability to judge somebody else.

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And we know their intent and we know --

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"I heard you say that, but really what you meant was --"

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"No one who would say that

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could ever possibly understand the issues."

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"Nobody who has your background could ever --"

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And we're like this.

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We all had this defensiveness.

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We all have this insecurity.

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We all have a sense of judgmentalism to one degree or another.

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And all I want to say today is could we just open our minds?

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Could we open our hearts?

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Could we open our ears and let's hear from people

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who have a story to tell,

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who know the same God and follow Him with vigor.

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And maybe we can actually create not just a better world,

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but maybe a better life for ourselves.

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That's what I'm excited about today.

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God, would You please do something in these talks

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and through all of these people's words.

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Help us to become more one. We want to be one.

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Help that happen today. Jesus, I pray. Amen.

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- My name is Kyla Woods.

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I am a journalist, broadcast host, and entrepreneur,

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and I'm an activist.

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And you might think, "Whoa, she's not an activist.

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That's the lady from TV."

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Well, I am an activist.

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And at this time, we all need to be activists.

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Being an activist is seeing something that's wrong

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and wanting to make it right and so you act.

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For me working in traditional media up until 2016,

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that's over 10 years of a broadcast media career.

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I knew that God was calling me to do something greater

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and to use my voice in a different way.

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And so fast forward to now, and God has been doing just that.

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As we've seen protests,

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as we've seen this movement toward racial justice,

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God has called me to use my voice in my platform in that fight

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and to help audiences understand that I too am Brianna Taylor,

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that my black husband is George Floyd.

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And that the two of us as black people

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could have easily been Ahmad Aubrey.

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And that is important to understand,

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that relational understanding of seeing me on your screen,

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smiling and happy and maybe sometimes funny,

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but also understanding at the same time that

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I could have easily been any of those three people:

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Brianna Taylor, George Floyd, Ahmad Aubrey,

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and that on the wrong day, given the wrong circumstance,

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at the end of the day,

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I would have just been seen as being black.

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In hindsight, I realize that

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God has always been preparing me for a moment like this,

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and He even planted the seed back in high school.

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So I went to Speedway High School, home of the Indy 500,

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where it was a predominantly white community,

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and I was the only black girl in a lot of things.

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First black cheerleading captain,

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first black student council president.

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And God used me in several different ways

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to make an impact and use my voice even at a young age.

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And so going into college,

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I went to college at Ball State University,

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which is north of Indianapolis,

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chirp, chirp to the Cardinals out there.

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And my freshman roommate, who was a white girl named Maggie,

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we had gone to high school together,

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but this was the first time that

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she'd really been up close and personal

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with a black person and with the black experience.

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And so with that came a lot of questions

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and a lot of opportunities for me to educate her

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on everything that relates to being black:

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hair, culture, food, body image.

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There were a number of things that I was able

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to really help her have a better understanding

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when it came to the black community.

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And that purpose came full circle just recently.

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A couple of weeks ago she sent me a message

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and she talked about those moments that we had together,

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those conversations that we had.

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We even called them black person fact of the day,

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just to kind of, you know, make it a little bit lighthearted.

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But it was important and it was integral

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to even how she relates to this current movement

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and moment that we're seeing in our country.

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And also has impacted the way she educates her children

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around racial justice and the importance

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of them understanding black culture

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and also the diversity of their friendships.

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And again, that's confirmation that God has given me

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to know that I have served a purpose

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and that truthfully, I've been fighting this fight

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And maybe I was an activist even back then.

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That's why it's important for us to use our voices

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and use our platforms.

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With any platform comes

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a significant amount of responsibility.

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And that's something I've always been keenly aware of

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and I've always been responsible for: my platform,

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my voice, and how I use it and how I lend it

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to causes like what we're seeing right now.

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So it's important for all of us to lean into conversations,

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to lean into how we can all be activists,

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how we can all use our voice in whatever our industry is

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and whatever our platform happens to be.

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So it can be frustrating trying to figure out

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what to do in this moment.

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It seems really, really big, feels overwhelming at times.

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Recently, I woke up in the middle of the night

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and I heard God very, very clearly say to me,

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"You've been working to change minds

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when it comes to racial justice

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and I'm preparing you to change lives

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when it comes to racial justice."

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And that moment for me was transcendent.

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It was like nothing I've ever experienced before in my life.

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And it was confirming.

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It was once again God saying to me,

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"I've prepared you for this.

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I've planted seeds along the way, along your journey.

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And those seeds need to blossom right now.

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And they need -- you need to see a harvest

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and you need to act.

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And you need to to be a part of this movement

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in a way that is unique to what I've called you to do."

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And I think God is saying that to you as well.

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I think God is asking you to use your platform,

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to use your voice.

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We've seen within this movement a lot of statements released,

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a lot of social media posts.

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Maybe you've posted something on social media,

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but we have to see more action.

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How can you use your mind and your heart

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to do what God has called you to do and to act?

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How can you go to your company and ask them to be more inclusive?

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What can you say to your CEO or to your board

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where there's not one black person

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or one person of color involved or at the table?

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Or maybe they have a seat at the table,

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but they don't have a voice at the table.

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What can you do to advocate for change there?

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How can you advocate for change in a community cause

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that you've been supporting,

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maybe you've donated your money to,

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but you want to see some change there

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and you want to see some inclusivity there.

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How can you bring your voice to that cause?

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The thing is, all of us have a voice,

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all of us have a platform, and all of us have a unique purpose. God has called us to it and He's prepared us

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and He's given us the tools and now is the time to use them.

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- As we're hearing, God's heart

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is always towards reconciliation and unity.

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A couple of weeks ago, our church took an important step

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with 60 other churches in the Cincinnati area.

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We got together and did a prayer walk praying

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for unity, reconciliation, justice, and an end to racism.

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It was amazing.

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Now, that said that. Did it solve the problem?

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No, of course not,, but it got us moving.

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See, it turns out that God is more able

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to steer a moving ship than He is one stuck at the harbor.

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I don't know where you feel stuck in your life,

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maybe stuck in your finances,

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maybe stuck in your relationship,

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maybe stuck in your physical health.

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But get moving and watch God start to steer your life.

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You know when it comes your money it is the same.

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A lot of us feel stalled or stuck in our finances.

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And I'm telling you to take a step in movement towards God,

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God will begin to direct your life in more powerful ways

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than you ever thought possible.

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That's my story, my wife's story,

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and thousands of other givers at Crossroads.

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We'd love to invite you to take a step

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at trusting God with your money by giving.

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You can go to Crossroads.net/give

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or you can text Crossroads to 313131.

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Let's continue on with Spark Talks.

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- Welcome to the perfect storm of 2020.

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Between the pandemic and the racial reckoning in our country,

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it's a challenging time.

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And yet this time, I believe, belongs to leaders.

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You're the kind of leader that God wants to use in this moment.

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I'm Chuck Mingo. I'm a teaching pastor at Crossroads

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and the founder of Undivided.

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And I want to talk to you about what I've been learning

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in the midst of the great reset, the perfect storm of 2020.

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One of the things that I've been reading over and over again,

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surprisingly, are words that were written in 1859

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by Charles Dickens,

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the first paragraph of his novel, A Tale of Two Cities.

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That dichotomy between light and dark

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and wisdom and foolishness and all that

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feels like our world, right?

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One day we're here, one day we're here.

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One day things are spiking. One day they're not.

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I mean, it's a crazy time to live in.

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I believe there's a pandemic underneath the pandemic,

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the erosion of trust.

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There's been erosion of trust at every level.

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There's certainly an erosion of institutional trust.

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Do you believe what the government is telling you

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or are you rebelling against

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what the government is telling you?

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Do you trust in the authorities that we have

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or are you skeptical of the authorities that we have?

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You can draw that along whatever lines you want to.

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There's an erosion of trust at the institutional level.

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There's also though an erosion of trust at the personal level.

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For the last seven months,

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we've been training each other to keep distance.

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And I understand why, but I also know that

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that does something to our psyche in terms of relational trust.

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And then finally, I believe there's an erosion of trust

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at the existential level.

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I am asking big questions.

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Are you asking any big questions?

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God, what are you up to?

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Some of you may be asking: God, are you even there?

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Right?

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This is a time where the erosion of trust is real.

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And in a moment like this,

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what people need are trustworthy leaders.

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They need trustworthy guides.

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I believe that you're called to be one of those for people

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and in relationship with other people.

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The way that you do that is through empathy and authority.

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Every trustworthy guide has empathy and authority.

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Empathy is when a leader can look at people,

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specifically people who see the world

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differently from them and say, "I understand.

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I'm leaning in."

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And authority, is when a leader can look at people

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and say, "I don't have all the answers,

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but I have a direction. Come follow me."

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Jesus was this kind of leader.

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He had full empathy, but He also operated in authority.

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So we grow our empathy by being with Jesus, in fact,

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it's important that we start there,

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because if I'm not with Jesus,

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then I don't have anything to offer as a leader.

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What God wants to give you to give to other people

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happens when you prioritize time with Him.

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But we also grow in our empathy by being with people,

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and specifically being with people who think differently

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and see the world differently than you do.

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Right now the division in our country

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is probably as bad as it's ever been.

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We may be, as some experts have said,

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more divided than we were at the time of the Civil War.

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But I believe that God is calling you and I

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to be people who engage with empathy

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with people who are different from us.

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Are you allowing enough space in your life

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to hear from people whose pain or perspective

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leads them to a different conclusion than you

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on the issues that are happening in our country?

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We all have the, yeah, buts.

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We all hear them all the time.

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I have a lot of people who say to me,

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"I know that it was wrong, what happened in Minneapolis.

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Yeah, but what about black on black crime?"

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"I know that what we're facing

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in our country right now is difficult,

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yeah, but what about police officers?

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And what would what do we need to do

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to care for police officers in this time

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because they're under fire."

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We all have those, and you know what I'm learning?

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Lean in, lean in on the, yeah, buts, because

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there's something for me to learn from people

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who are seeing the reality different than I am right now.

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Are you making space for that?

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Because when we do, we grow in empathy.

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We grow in our empathy by being with Jesus.

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Are you giving Jesus enough time

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to really deeply connect to your heart,

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to be re-calibrated in your identity,

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to be re-calibrated in your love for other people?

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Are you giving enough time to dissenters

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and people who see this differently than you?

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That's how we grow an empathy

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and people need that from leaders like you.

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But we also grow as leaders when we are operating in our authority.

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God wants to grow your authority.

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Jesus was full, He had perfect character.

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That's why He was able to operate with authority.

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Because you know what? He had moral authority.

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And God wants to grow your moral authority

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by growing your character.

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A great analogy that I heard from a teacher, Pete Scazzero.

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He talked about the difference between

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stone cladding and load-bearing stone.

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I didn't know what this was.

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But basically, if you think about it being a master Mason

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takes a really long time.

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People who work with stone are incredibly talented

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and incredibly rare.

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It takes about 10 to 12 years to become a master mason.

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And so in the construction industry,

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they found a way to speed up the process

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and give people what they want.

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We've got to give the people what they want. Right?

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And so the way they do that is something called stone cladding.

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Actually, you will be more empathic

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if you have actually gone through difficulty.

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You will be more empathic of people

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who sit in a different place than you on an issue

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if you've allowed God to develop your character.

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He wants to do this for you.

00:20:37

So the question I would ask you is: talk to God and ask Him,

00:20:41

"God, what are you establishing in me in this season?

00:20:45

How are you helping me better bear the load

00:20:48

of other people by growing my character?"

00:20:52

And then finally, we grow our authority

00:20:55

by simply doing the work of leadership.

00:20:58

2 Timothy 4:5, Paul is writing to his mentee Timothy

00:21:02

and he says:

00:21:12

See, I'm excited to talk to you as an influencer

00:21:14

because if you're a person who is open to Jesus,

00:21:16

if you have said yes to Jesus, then I want you to know

00:21:19

you have a specific ministry in this moment in our country.

00:21:23

2 Corinthians 5:18 says:

00:21:33

We've been given the task of being people

00:21:35

who represent God's ability to reconcile broken man to Himself,

00:21:40

by the way that we show up and reconcile

00:21:42

broken relationships between other people,

00:21:45

between people that we may have brokenness with.

00:21:47

God has given you a ministry and the way that you do this

00:21:50

is you've just got to get involved.

00:21:52

Let me tell you something, it is impossible to get it right

00:21:56

when you're talking about race all the time.

00:21:58

I do this. This is my passion.

00:22:00

I started a movement called Undivided.

00:22:01

We got thousands of people engaged in cross racial conversations.

00:22:05

This is what I care about.

00:22:06

It's also my life: I'm married to a Latinx woman.

00:22:09

My boys and my daughter, they are biracial children.

00:22:12

I live this every day, but I don't get it right.

00:22:16

I say the wrong thing sometimes,

00:22:17

I think the wrong things sometimes,

00:22:19

I do the wrong things sometimes.

00:22:21

But here's the saving grace for all of us:

00:22:24

People don't need you to be perfect

00:22:27

in the race conversation.

00:22:28

We don't need you to be perfect right now

00:22:30

as we step into this moment.

00:22:32

But you're call to be a practitioner.

00:22:34

I'm called to engage.

00:22:35

We are Christians. This is the work we do.

00:22:38

We're in the business of hope.

00:22:40

We're in the business of running toward the things

00:22:42

that everybody else wants to run away from.

00:22:44

We've been given the Ministry of Reconciliation.

00:22:48

So I want to encourage you,

00:22:50

you don't have to be perfect, but be a practitioner.

00:22:55

So in the midst of this crazy, perfect storm,

00:22:58

where is Jesus getting your attention right now?

00:23:00

As you're hearing me talk, I wonder,

00:23:02

is He calling you to spend more time with Him?

00:23:04

Is it about being with Jesus?

00:23:05

Maybe that's where you need to focus.

00:23:07

Or is it being with people,

00:23:10

specifically people who might invite dissent,

00:23:12

people who might see this differently than you?

00:23:13

Maybe that's where God is calling you to lean in in this moment.

00:23:16

Maybe God is growing your character.

00:23:18

There are places in your life that have been stone cladding,

00:23:20

but He's turning them into load-bearing stone.

00:23:22

Or maybe you've just got to do the work

00:23:25

and recognize you're not going to be perfect,

00:23:27

but you're committed to be a practitioner in this space.

00:23:30

This moment belongs to leaders and I believe

00:23:33

you're the kind of leader that God wants to use.

00:23:48

- I'm here with Carl Kuhl,

00:23:49

Senior Pastor of Mosaic Church in Elkridge, Maryland,

00:23:52

a friend of mine.

00:23:54

Carl, I'm just glad you're with me today.

00:23:55

- I'm excited to be here, man. Thanks for having me.

00:23:57

- 2020, what a year.

00:24:00

- Give me what are the three words that come to mind

00:24:02

when you think about 2020 so far?

00:24:04

- Number one probably says more about me than 2020:

00:24:07

Anger, uncertainty.

00:24:10

And this isn't one word, but what's next?

00:24:13

- As a leader, you know, we talked about this whole idea

00:24:15

that leaders want to lead with empathy and authority.

00:24:19

How's that playing out for you?

00:24:20

Where are you growing in your empathy in the midst of this?

00:24:23

- Well, I'm growing as a leader in many different ways,

00:24:26

and I hope empathy is one of them.

00:24:29

The verse that God has really been highlighting to me

00:24:32

is when Jesus says woe to you when all men speak well of you.

00:24:36

Because really in today's culture,

00:24:38

there's two ways to do that in my experience,

00:24:41

to have everybody speak well of you.

00:24:43

One is to say absolutely nothing and go into hiding

00:24:45

and ignore everything

00:24:47

and the other is just to exist in your own echo chamber.

00:24:50

- You know, your own Facebook world

00:24:52

or your own political view or whatever it is. And it's only when we step out of that,

00:24:58

or at least I'll speak for myself.

00:25:00

It's only when I step out of that that my empathy grows.

00:25:04

- Otherwise, my empathy is decreasing,

00:25:07

but the cost of that is people will criticize.

00:25:12

- Yeah, because what you're saying is

00:25:13

one of the metrics of success is am I getting critique?

00:25:17

- Am I getting pushback, right?

00:25:19

- Yes. And just because you're getting critique

00:25:21

doesn't mean you're doing the right things.

00:25:22

- That's right.

00:25:23

- But not getting critique

00:25:24

does show you're doing the wrong thing.

00:25:25

- It's one of the reasons why I love our friendship

00:25:27

and relationship is because I feel like

00:25:29

we just get a chance to talk.

00:25:30

We get a chance to bring our perspectives,

00:25:32

our differences.

00:25:33

And I'm learning a lot from our relationship.

00:25:36

You know, we had a great conversation about Black Lives Matter.

00:25:38

- Yeah.

00:25:39

- And just, you know, how to think about that.

00:25:41

And, you know, there are things about Black Lives Matter

00:25:43

that absolutely do not line up with what I would believe

00:25:45

as a Christian, as a follower of Jesus.

00:25:47

And so, you know, we had that conversation

00:25:49

about like saying those three words versus not,

00:25:53

- How do you say that three words without endorsing

00:25:55

everything some people take those three words to mean.

00:25:58

- That's exactly right.

00:25:59

And so, again, it goes back to your thing around

00:26:01

if I'm getting critiqued then that means I'm engaged.

00:26:04

And you know, where I landed on that was I said,

00:26:06

"Hey, you know, I think that I don't want

00:26:08

to lose the lament Black Lives Matter because

00:26:11

I think it's a prophetic lament in this moment.

00:26:14

And that doesn't have to be connected to everything

00:26:17

that an organization called Black Lives Matter stands for.

00:26:19

And that's a real tension.

00:26:20

And I mean, even saying that there's going be

00:26:21

people who disagree and people who push back.

00:26:23

- Remind me what you said about the co-belligerents,

00:26:26

because that was a thing you hit on in our conversation

00:26:29

about that phrase Black Lives Matter that was helpful to me.

00:26:32

- Exactly. Yes.

00:26:33

So Francis Schaffer is a theologian.

00:26:35

He's actually from Philly.

00:26:36

I didn't know that at the time, but he's from Philly like me.

00:26:39

So he must have the right answers if he's from Philadelphia.

00:26:41

But no, so he talked about this idea of co-belligerency

00:26:44

that as people who are aligned to Jesus,

00:26:47

we may find that there are fights we get into,

00:26:49

whether you call it a racial justice fight

00:26:52

or a fight around, you know,

00:26:53

abortion would be an example of this too

00:26:54

where we might not agree with everything

00:26:57

that someone believes that's aligning on that,

00:26:59

but we can be co-belligerents for that cause.

00:27:02

And so how to think about that?

00:27:03

You know, I also think about that when I wrestle

00:27:05

with do I show up at protests or not?

00:27:08

And at leastfrom my perspective, when I'm in Cincinnati,

00:27:11

I'm saying to myself, "This is my city.

00:27:13

God has called me to be a pastor in this city.

00:27:16

I think I should be present where there's pain in my city."

00:27:19

And Jesus was never concerned about

00:27:22

people identifying Him as hanging with the wrong crowd.

00:27:24

That happened all the time. Right?

00:27:26

He was called a wine -- a drunkard and a person

00:27:28

who hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors.

00:27:30

But there was something about His presence that was important.

00:27:33

And so I have to embrace that and recognize

00:27:36

me showing up at a protest doesn't mean

00:27:37

I'm endorsing everything that said there.

00:27:39

But it does mean that as a person of Jesus,

00:27:41

I want to be present, I want to be close to where pain is

00:27:44

because I believe that's where Jesus would be.

00:27:46

So it makes me think about

00:27:47

this whole conversation of cancel culture,

00:27:50

because that's that's a big thing right now.

00:27:51

And you just actually talked about that at your church.

00:27:53

So school us. What are you thinking?

00:27:55

What are you wrestling with as it relates to cancel culture?

00:27:57

- Well, it hit home for us in Maryland because

00:28:01

in downtown Baltimore, there is a statue of Christopher Columbus.

00:28:05

And a group of people in the night showed up there.

00:28:08

I don't know how they got it down

00:28:09

because it was like multiple tons in weight.

00:28:12

So I don't even know how this happened.

00:28:13

They ripped down the statue.

00:28:14

They threw it in the harbor.

00:28:16

So we filmed in front of the base

00:28:18

that used to have a statue on it and, you know,

00:28:21

did a teaser for the sermon and said,

00:28:23

"Hey, we're going to talk about cancel culture today."

00:28:26

Here's the thing, Paul says, "I am the worst of sinners."

00:28:32

That's what the apostle Paul says in the scriptures.

00:28:35

And I used to think, OK, that makes sense

00:28:37

because his professional job was to kill Christians.

00:28:40

I can't think of something worse than that. Right?

00:28:43

- Right.

00:28:44

- But that's not what he's referring to because

00:28:46

he doesn't say I was the worst of sinners.

00:28:49

He says I am the worst of sinners right now.

00:28:53

I want to do good and I don't.

00:28:57

And I think the danger of cancel culture

00:29:00

is a danger all of us always fall into,

00:29:03

now it just has a name and it has a current application.

00:29:07

It's wanting to draw a line between me

00:29:09

and people who are worse than I am

00:29:11

and people who did something I don't like.

00:29:13

It's really drawing a line and saying,

00:29:16

"My sin is OK and that sin isn't."

00:29:19

And listen, I'm not even saying --

00:29:20

you know, I got emails on the sermon on both sides.

00:29:23

"I can't believe you endorse it."

00:29:24

"I can't believe you're against it."

00:29:25

I didn't say in the sermon one way or another

00:29:27

what we should do with the statute.

00:29:28

I think if Christians are arguing over statues,

00:29:31

that goes really bad really quick when the people of God do that.

00:29:34

- But if you're going to cancel somebody, cancel me.

00:29:39

- Yeah.

00:29:40

- Because I'm the worst of sinners.

00:29:43

Cancel me because my sin is worse.

00:29:46

Whatever you're canceling them for, I'm worse.

00:29:49

And you also have to fast forward 100 years.

00:29:52

What are people going to want to cancel us for?

00:29:54

- For driving a gas powered car, for eating meat?

00:29:58

You know, I don't know.

00:29:59

- But if you're cancel somebody, cancel me.

00:30:02

- That's such a good word.

00:30:04

- I want to live, which is why I'm part of the church,

00:30:07

in a culture of grace, in a culture of endless second chances.

00:30:12

I think the unique thing that gains

00:30:14

a Christian authority to speak into our culture,

00:30:17

whether it's about race or anything is how broken I am.

00:30:21

If I come in as the powerful voice

00:30:23

that wants to tell everybody how it is that doesn't work.

00:30:27

Responding to power with power, it's going to fall apart.

00:30:30

- We have to respond with humility and the ability to listen.

00:30:34

- Yeah.

00:30:35

Man, I don't know if you ever thought about being a pastor,

00:30:39

you might want to think about that.

00:30:40

There might be a future for you in that.

00:30:42

- What else are you learning this year?

00:30:43

- Yeah, another scripture that's really come alive for me is,

00:30:46

I think it's Paul. I should know.

00:30:50

He wrote in the Bible be quick to listen and slow to speak.

00:30:55

And I've taken some heat on --

00:30:56

- Hold on. Just you know, it's interesting.

00:30:59

There are things in the Bible that we know and we read.

00:31:04

Might that be the most profound scripture

00:31:06

that we could apply in this moment?

00:31:08

I'm just wondering, short of Christ died for your sins.

00:31:12

- Might that be, say that again. Be quick to listen.

00:31:15

- Be quick to listen and slow to speak.

00:31:19

But a lot of people push back against that

00:31:21

because the people we watch on cable news,

00:31:23

the people who follow on Twitter,

00:31:24

they are really good off the cuff.

00:31:26

- That's right.

00:31:27

- I mean, you don't finish your sentence

00:31:28

and they've got a comeback that's really articulate.

00:31:31

And that's not who I am.

00:31:33

And some people say silence is complicity.

00:31:35

And I kind of agree with that.

00:31:38

But let me get my thoughts together before you say I'm silent.

00:31:40

- That's right.

00:31:41

- Because if I, Carl, am quick to speak, I'm quick to misspeak.

00:31:45

So I've got a question. I want to be blunt with me.

00:31:48

- OK?

00:31:50

- You're a black pastor, I'm a white pastor

00:31:53

of primarily a white church, as you've seen.

00:31:55

- Yes.

00:31:56

- What would you say to me, and be blunt, as advice?

00:32:00

- What I would say is stay uncomfortable.

00:32:02

I would say stay uncomfortable.

00:32:03

I can't imagine how uncomfortable this moment must be.

00:32:08

I know, I mean, I say this to Brian, our pastor at Crossroads.

00:32:11

I say, "Brian, I know that when you talk about race

00:32:14

and when I talk about race, we hear from different people.

00:32:17

But the people you hear from write bigger checks."

00:32:20

It's just the reality of leadership.

00:32:22

And I would encourage you with the same thing.

00:32:25

Stay uncomfortable.

00:32:27

I do believe there is a reckoning happening

00:32:30

and the church has to be a part of it.

00:32:31

I believe God's calling us to repentance.

00:32:33

But, man, if we can stay

00:32:34

in that uncomfortable space long enough,

00:32:37

I believe that you being in this conversation

00:32:39

as a white leader of a predominantly white church is critical,

00:32:43

is critical for the broader church to move forward.

00:32:47

And God has put you in that position, Carl.

00:32:50

And that's why I love being your friend

00:32:52

and it's why I want to be a person who you can

00:32:54

ask the questions to and engage, because

00:32:56

I see your influence and, man,

00:32:57

I want to see your influence maximized in this moment

00:33:00

because God has put you exactly where He wants you to be

00:33:03

for such a time as this.

00:33:05

- That's a good word.

00:33:06

Here's my follow up.

00:33:07

- All right.

00:33:08

- How long is this discomfort going to last?

00:33:12

- And here's my blunt answer.

00:33:13

- It's been 400 years for my people.

00:33:15

- It's been 400 years of discomfort. Right? 1619.

00:33:19

It's been 400 years.

00:33:21

Even if it takes 40 years,

00:33:24

even if it's a multigenerational effort

00:33:25

that is really hard and really difficult,

00:33:28

it is so worth it. It is so worth it.

00:33:30

And you and I both know, we know where the story ends.

00:33:34

This is the beauty for me.

00:33:35

The story ends in Revelations

00:33:37

with every tribe, language, nation and tongue.

00:33:40

There is a distinction in heaven, right?

00:33:42

- We don't all become the same race in heaven.

00:33:43

- We don't all become the same race in heaven.

00:33:45

There is a distinction and that distinction

00:33:47

is ultimately where this is going.

00:33:49

So I don't know how long it's going to be uncomfortable,

00:33:51

but I do know one day it's going to be really sweet.

00:33:54

- And we're playing for that, we're playing for the long game.

00:34:08

- Though we live in a world that's far from perfect,

00:34:11

there is a God who wants justice and reconciliation.

00:34:14

And we sing these songs right now as an anthem

00:34:17

to a God we can trust.

00:44:36

- I hope you found those talks helpful

00:44:38

and motivating for your life.

00:44:39

At Crossroads, we want to help you more than just once a week,

00:44:42

want to help you throughout your week.

00:44:44

If you want to receive encouraging, inspiring texts

00:44:47

throughout your week, you can text Spark to 313131.

00:44:50

We also believe that your kids were designed

00:44:53

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00:44:56

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If you want to see those, we have one for older kids

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and one for younger kids.

00:45:03

Every week you can go to Crossroads.net/KidsClub.

00:45:07

We'll see you next time for more Spark Talks.

00:45:11

- Thanks for watching.

00:45:12

My name is Lena Schuler

00:45:13

and I'm the Crossroads Anywhere Community Pastor.

00:45:15

And we're glad to have you watching today

00:45:17

from anywhere that you are.

00:45:19

If you're brand new to Crossroads,

00:45:20

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00:45:26

You can head to Crossroads.net and sign up for that today.

00:45:29

And we'll see you back next week.

	Brian Tome: "Why the Church Needs to Care About Race"	1:08
	Kyla Woods: "I Never Thought I'd Be An Activist"	6:54
	Chuck Mingo: "The Thing We Need Most in This Moment"	14:17
	Interview with Chuck & Carl Kuhl	23:37
	Worship: Oh The Power	34:19
	Worship: Graves Into Gardens	39:27

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